The Question That Tells You If a Mentee Is Worth Your Time

Sean Weisbrot: Welcome back to another episode of the We Live to Build podcast. [cite: 350

Sean Weisbrot: Oftentimes, entrepreneurs choose co-founders to help them build their ideas, knowing that this person or these people have complementary skill sets. [cite: 3503]

Sean Weisbrot: Some of us dream of starting a company with our significant other because we assume our goals are aligned and we understand each other better than if it were a friend or a stranger. [cite: 3504]

Sean Weisbrot: While everyone can gain something from this episode, it's really tailored for people who either currently work with their spouse or are thinking about starting a company with their spouse. [cite: 3505]

Sean Weisbrot: It's important that you learn how to understand how to make it work because it's certainly not easy and can result in a failed business or a failed romantic relationship. [cite: 3506]

Sean Weisbrot: So, thanks to Nellie, aka CEO and founder of Net Corp, who started a business with her husband, grew it for nine years, sold it to a publicly listed company, and then started Net Corp with him a few years later and they still run it together after 11 years. [cite: 3507]

Sean Weisbrot: Thanks for peeling back the curtain on what it's like to work with your spouse, and how to keep it all from going sideways. [cite: 3508]

Sean Weisbrot: In this episode, you'll hear us talk about when did you know you wanted to work with your spouse. [cite: 3509]

Sean Weisbrot: How did you decide what kind of company to start? [cite: 3510]

Sean Weisbrot: Were there any boundaries or splitting of roles from day one? [cite: 351

Sean Weisbrot: Was it possible to prevent the blurring of work and romance? Why you should seek a couples’ therapist. [cite: 351

Sean Weisbrot: Why you should set boundaries. Why saying no is okay. [cite: 3513]

Sean Weisbrot: What did you do to knock it on each other's nerves by spending so much time together? [cite: 3514]

Sean Weisbrot: And what did you learn from this experience? So, thanks again and I hope you enjoy this episode. [cite: 3515]

Sean Weisbrot: What it is you're doing now that makes you the right person to talk about working with your spouse? [cite: 3516]

Nellie Akalp: So, it's a pleasure to be on your podcast. And my name is Nellie Akalp. [cite: 3518]

Nellie Akalp: I'm the CEO and founder of CorpNet.com. I went to law school, kind of did the whole educational track college, graduate school, got my JD degree, and decided that right out of law school, after graduation, entry-level salary for a first-year lawyer wasn't going to really, really suffice and satisfy my taste buds and my lifestyle at that time. [cite: 3519]

Nellie Akalp: My husband and I were living in a one-bedroom apartment and we decided, you know what? [cite: 3520]

Nellie Akalp: Let's get into business for ourselves. He came up with the great idea of starting businesses online. [cite: 352

Nellie Akalp: At that time, it was 1997, the internet was ripe for entry and we had our law degree. [cite: 352

Nellie Akalp: We had a lot of experience just coming right out of law school with taking corporation, classes, and how to start businesses online. [cite: 3523]

Nellie Akalp: So, we thought, why don't we take our experience and make the startup business filing process seamless and offer it in all 50 states, and make it so that not just a few people can benefit from it, but the entire world can benefit from it at a fraction of the cost of what an attorney would charge. [cite: 3524]

Nellie Akalp: So, our first company was born in 97. We grew that company to where it was nearly doing $1 million in gross sales revenues per month. [cite: 3525]

Nellie Akalp: Fast forward to 2005. We were acquired by a publicly traded company, and after the acquisition, my husband and I realized that we no longer had the wingspan and the wherewithal to bring our own entrepreneurial spirit. [cite: 3526]

Nellie Akalp: To the table because now corporate America had taken over. [cite: 3527]

Nellie Akalp: So, we decided to step down, go under our non-compete, which was a three-year non-compete, and focused on our then-growing three children focused on ourselves. [cite: 3528]

Nellie Akalp: And then in 2009, we decided to start all over again with my current company, corporate. [cite: 3529]

Nellie Akalp: Having all this knowledge all the way from starting businesses down to selling my business, and I've accumulated so much experience and expertise that I'm now considered an influencer in the small business community. [cite: 3530]

Sean Weisbrot: For the purposes of this episode, I want to hone in on your relationship with your spouse. [cite: 353

Sean Weisbrot: We will talk a little bit more about the selling of the first company and things like that towards the end of the episode. [cite: 3533]

Sean Weisbrot: So, for now, the first question I want to ask is, was it your idea or his idea to start that company out of law school? [cite: 3534]

Nellie Akalp: One thing I left out is that I manage and oversee corporate with my husband and business partner of over 24 years. [cite: 3536]

Nellie Akalp: His name is Phil and in answer to your question, Sean, it was Phil's idea. Phil was the visionary. [cite: 3537]

Nellie Akalp: Phil's always been the visionary with all of our businesses. [cite: 3538]

Nellie Akalp: He's been my one and only partner in every one of my businesses. [cite: 3539]

Nellie Akalp: And what it came down to was I was working a 9 to 5 job, making a measly 12 to 15 bucks an hour.

Nellie Akalp: And I remember coming home one day, and I was kind of fed up with the fact that he was just sitting home playing video games in his underwear.

Nellie Akalp: Sorry to be so honest and forward, and I was tired of it because I think we had just gotten engaged.

Nellie Akalp: And I remember letting him know that if he really wants to pursue this relationship and make it stronger and get us to the point of me actually marrying him, he's going to need to do something more than sitting home in his underwear and playing video games.

Nellie Akalp: And it was that moment that he was like, I have this idea and it's about starting businesses online.

Nellie Akalp: I said, okay, great, what's the catch? And he's like, I need $100. And I said, really?

Nellie Akalp: And he goes, yeah, I have to buy this domain name.

Nellie Akalp: And he's waiting on a cheque for me. I have to buy it. I have to pay him 100 bucks.

Nellie Akalp: But I think this is really going to hit big for us.

Nellie Akalp: And I didn't even doubt it for a second. I gave it to him and next thing you know, our first company was born.

Nellie Akalp: He's always been the visionary in all of our business dealings, and I think that's really where the magic happens, is that he's more the idea guy.

Nellie Akalp: He's more the visionary. I'm the one who executes on his ideas.

Nellie Akalp: Because of my background in operations and sales and marketing. It's a really, really good partnership.

Sean Weisbrot: It sounds to me like he was maybe the CEO and you were the CEO of that company.

Nellie Akalp: That was exactly right. So, with the first company, it was kind of one of those learn as you go type of gigs whereby he was the CEO, he.

Nellie Akalp: He was the president, and I was kind of in the background, and I was kind of his muse.

Nellie Akalp: It created issues for us. I won't lie. It created a lot of issues because we were very young, and I felt that I brought a lot to the table, and I wasn't really being rewarded for all of the efforts that I had made.

Nellie Akalp: I think that created a lot of conflict for us later down the line as we work through our marriage, because every marriage is going to have ups and downs.

Nellie Akalp: And at a point we were seeking therapy.

Nellie Akalp: And one of the things that are couples therapists told us was that you guys have to have linear roles where it's equal, but where you're not stepping over each other.

Nellie Akalp: That was one of the best advice that we ever got, because at one point it wasn't linear.

Nellie Akalp: And you find yourself in that type of a situation whereby you're doing all the work, but your partner is getting all the credit for it and it becomes a very toxic and unhealthy situation.

Nellie Akalp: Whereas when it's linear and you're working in tandem with each other linearly, it's more of a healthy environment whereby both partners, in my opinion, get to feel like they're bringing something to the table and they're both being rewarded equally for it.

Sean Weisbrot: What it sounds like is the professional situation became toxic and it affected your romantic relationship, which is extremely important.

Sean Weisbrot: And I want to talk about that. But before we talk about that part, I want to know how long did it take before you started to feel underappreciated.

Nellie Akalp: So let me back up. I wouldn't say it affected our romantic relationship.

Nellie Akalp: I think there was a number of different things. Um, we were really, really young and we were trying to have kids at the time, so there was lots of things going on.

Nellie Akalp: I think if anything affected our romantic relationship, was having, uh, twins at the same time and then immediately having a third child, you know, I mean, kids really, really, really affect your relationship.

Nellie Akalp: For us, I think we've always from day one, we've always had this pact of work hard, play hard, compartmentalize and make sure we have date night.

Nellie Akalp: You know? And I think that's really what has always kept our marriage super, super spicy and fun, you know, and exciting.

Nellie Akalp: So, with everything going on, we always managed to take time out and have fun along the way.

Nellie Akalp: I think one of the things, however that happens when you work together is that even when you go out, you can't help but bring the business into conversations.

Nellie Akalp: That's what really, in my opinion, starts kind of creeping in, where you have to maintain really strict boundaries as to keeping it out, because at one point you look back and you're like, wow, what happened?

Nellie Akalp: You know, we're simply business partners or, you know, and best friends, like.

Nellie Akalp: Mother and sister and then the romance is gone.

Nellie Akalp: We were very cognizant of this, and with the first company, I don't even really think we work that hard.

Nellie Akalp: The business kind of grew itself to the point where then the acquisition happened.

Nellie Akalp: So, in my opinion, really where I saw most of my efforts, most of his efforts, most of the struggles and really the test as to whether our marriage was going to survive was with this company, corporate, our current company, because this is the company that's really, really, really tested our relationship.

Nellie Akalp: And really, we went through a lot of trials and tribulations, and knock on wood, we're still here and stronger than ever.

Sean Weisbrot: You said that at one point you were seeing a therapist as a couple?

Nellie Akalp: when you work together as a married couple, I think if anybody works together as a married couple, it behooves you not to have a couples’ therapist.

Nellie Akalp: I think it's very healthy. I believe in couples therapy, I believe in therapy in general, and I think especially for married couples who works together, who parents together, who owns a business together, it's really important that you seek therapy together.

Nellie Akalp: There's so many issues that come in and they can all be enmeshed. They can all kind of cross.

Nellie Akalp: It's important to have a third-party kind of help you view those issues and try to help you dissect those issues so that you can continue to have a healthy marriage and a healthy working relationship as a couple.

Sean Weisbrot: So how long were you doing the business together before one of you realized that you needed to start seeing a therapist together?

Sean Weisbrot: Whose idea was it and how did you agree upon the right kind of a therapist?

Nellie Akalp: Probably the second to last year before we sold the business, and why we decided to seek therapy was because at that point we had children.

Nellie Akalp: And now the rules were not only that of a married couple and a working couple but also as parents who are co-parenting, running a business together, and trying to keep a marriage together.

Nellie Akalp: So, at that point, we felt that it was best for us to seek therapy because, you know, I had just given birth to our twins.

Nellie Akalp: I'm sure you've heard what happens when you know a woman gives birth. You go through postpartum depression.

Nellie Akalp: And so there was a lot of different things happening.

Nellie Akalp: The way we came to who we felt would be a good therapist for us was we interviewed people.

Nellie Akalp: What it boiled down to is, did they carry the same values that we had, and were they going to be able to benefit us as a couple in trying to, you know, maintain our value system and also help us?

Sean Weisbrot: So, you had said something else, which was sometimes you felt like you were becoming partners, business partners, and losing the romance because of communicating about work a little bit too much.

Sean Weisbrot: Was there one of you who noticed that this was happening and then expressed this to the other?

Sean Weisbrot: Did you both notice a. At the same time. And how did you come together to agree on ways to stop that from continuing, and how did you keep each other accountable for that?

Nellie Akalp: It's a process that takes place. You start seeing differences within each other.

Nellie Akalp: When you feel that the spark, you know in the intimate setting is not as spicy.

Nellie Akalp: You know, you start wondering, okay, what's going on? You kind of take a step back.

Nellie Akalp: You start resenting each other. You're becoming a little less patient for each other, and you start snapping at each other.

Nellie Akalp: Those are all things that lend its way to kind of the red flags. And you go, okay, it's time.

Nellie Akalp: Let's take a step back.

Nellie Akalp: For us, it was a combination of all those and also coupled with lack of sleep, being up all night with babies, you know, screaming babies that get up at the same time.

Nellie Akalp: You know, twins are not easy. Especially my twins, you know, very demanding.

Nellie Akalp: When the acquisition took place, it was never expected. We weren't looking at an exit strategy.

Nellie Akalp: We never had an exit strategy in place. I think the timing of the acquisition was really perfect for us, because it was really a good time for us to kind of step back and really focus on our then-growing children and start focusing on ourselves as individuals to live a more healthier life.

Sean Weisbrot: What other things did you learn about your relationship, about your business, about yourselves as individuals, from working with a therapist?

Nellie Akalp: Boundaries were one of the biggest tools that we learned about.

Nellie Akalp: You know, when you have boundaries, you're living this healthy way of how you want to be treated, how you want to treat others, and how you demand respect for yourself.

Nellie Akalp: So, I think boundaries are very important, and that's one of the greatest tools that we learned.

Nellie Akalp: We also learned that you need to get rid of toxic people out of your life.

Nellie Akalp: We learn no is a complete answer and a decision is the end of a thought.

Nellie Akalp: So, when you make a decision, stick to it and follow through with it.

Nellie Akalp: But I would say the biggest takeaway for us was the fact that as a married couple running a business together, where you're both alpha dogs, type personalities, you cannot work in an environment where one person is submissive to the other person.

Nellie Akalp: You have to work in linear types of relationships where both people have equal footing and both people are working, but not managing each other or working in the same department.

Nellie Akalp: And for us, that was really easy to follow through with because, you know, he has a very heavy tech background and, you know, more marketing and tech and search engine optimization and Facebook ad marketing and really bringing the traffic to the website, whereas I had more of an operation sales background, really working on our sales team, our customer service team, our operations, our customer support.

Nellie Akalp: So, it was a good partnership for us, and we were able to follow through with those roles that we were told that would work for us, and it would lend itself to us being able to work together.

Sean Weisbrot: So, let's spend a few brief minutes talking about the selling of the business, joining the corporation, not being happy with it, and deciding to quit.

Nellie Akalp: We were approached by a publicly traded company, and it was first under the guise of, you know, we want to partner with you guys.

Nellie Akalp: And soon the conversation turned from one of partnership to acquisition.

Nellie Akalp: It was one of the fastest acquisitions that we've ever done, and we started talking in March, and escrow closed in. I believe it was November 15th.

Nellie Akalp: Lots of learning lessons from it. We really saw people's true colors.

Nellie Akalp: Cousins and uncles and friends that we never knew of came out of the woodwork.

Nellie Akalp: You know, it was a really interesting period in our lives.

Nellie Akalp: And for both of us, it really became very apparent that we're real, true entrepreneurs.

Nellie Akalp: We don't like to be told how to run a business.

Nellie Akalp: We don't like to be told what time to come to work, or what time to leave. We're really entrepreneurs. [cite: 3640]

Nellie Akalp: And entrepreneurs are people who really need to be able to spread their wings and do whatever kind of comes to them. [cite: 364

Nellie Akalp: When you're owned by another company, it's hard, you know, and you can't really do that. [cite: 364

Nellie Akalp: So once the acquisition happened, my husband immediately stepped down. [cite: 3643]

Nellie Akalp: I was unfortunately a little bit more enmeshed with the company, so it took me about 4 to 6 months to step down and this associate with the company. [cite: 3644]

Nellie Akalp: Do I regret how it happened? No. Would I have done things differently? [cite: 3645]

Nellie Akalp: Possibly because they really didn't know how to run that company they thought they knew. [cite: 3646]

Nellie Akalp: Unfortunately, after the acquisition took place a few years thereafter they ended up selling the company to a privately held individual, my husband and obviously we look at it and we go, well, if we had kept our contacts with, you know, the company that acquired us, maybe we could have bought the company back. [cite: 3647]

Nellie Akalp: But I don't regret anything that happened today as I look back at it and you can sit here and do a bunch of what-ifs. [cite: 3648]

Nellie Akalp: But at the end of the day, I think everything unfolded the way it should have unfolded. [cite: 3649]

Nellie Akalp: Because today, with our current company, corporate, I'm in a better place than I've ever been. [cite: 3650]

Nellie Akalp: I'm so excited and truly blessed with a team that I get to call my team and really love my company and how it's unfolded, and how we're able to service people through our service offerings, through our partnerships with our partners, the level of interaction and the breadth of services and how much we get to service not only entrepreneurs but business professionals through not only our core services but also through our partners. [cite: 365

Nellie Akalp: Program as well.

Sean Weisbrot: So, you spent all these years working on yourself before starting corporate? [cite: 3654]

Sean Weisbrot: What was the most valuable thing that you learned in those years of focusing on yourself? [cite: 3655]

Nellie Akalp: So, the biggest learning lesson for me was that I realized I was too passionate and frankly, too young to take on an early retirement and helping people start businesses. [cite: 3657]

Nellie Akalp: Inspiring people to go after their own dreams was really something that was exciting to me, because I would find myself sitting at people's businesses, helping them build their businesses free of charge because I couldn't charge them because I was under a non-compete. [cite: 3658]

Nellie Akalp: So, the minute my non-compete ran out, I realized that this is really something that I am so passionate about, and it's really not considered work because when you're so excited and passionate about what you do, it's not work. [cite: 3659]

Nellie Akalp: Not only do you get to have fun, you get to make money, and you don't look at it as work. [cite: 3660]

Nellie Akalp: Just like right now. You know, I'm sitting here on this podcast with you. It's almost 8:00 at night. [cite: 366

Nellie Akalp: It's exciting to me because it's my job, but it's not really something I dread doing. I actually enjoy it. [cite: 366

Nellie Akalp: That's really what is the biggest revelation for me. And it really helps me through my life. [cite: 3663]

Nellie Akalp: I guess the message for me here is that when you have something that's so rewarding for you, you make it work. [cite: 3664]

Nellie Akalp: And no matter what your struggles are in life when you're doing something that is of service to people, that's helping people, that's rewarding, and you enjoy it so much, no matter what your present state is, you're always going to make it through. [cite: 3665]

Sean Weisbrot: So, having been through one business with your husband, learning about how each other works and how to create boundaries, what is the most important thing you think you learned from those nine years together? [cite: 3667]

Sean Weisbrot: And how did that make it easier to start a second company together? [cite: 3668]

Nellie Akalp: The secret sauce to us being able to work together today, having even a better and bigger and more successful company, is the fact that we put our egos aside. [cite: 3670]

Nellie Akalp: We come together and we work together collaboratively and really focus on what's in the best interest of our company and what our company needs, what our clients need. [cite: 367

Nellie Akalp: And as long as you can maintain healthy boundaries in a healthy environment, anything is possible. [cite: 367

Sean Weisbrot: How does someone know that the person they're partnered with is the wrong person to start a business with? [cite: 3674]

Sean Weisbrot: You're in a romantic relationship, and one of them says, hey, let's do a business together. [cite: 3675]

Sean Weisbrot: How do you know if it's going to fall apart or be successful from day one? [cite: 3676]

Sean Weisbrot: How do you know whether to say yes or no to that proposition? [cite: 3677]

Nellie Akalp: You don't. I mean, that's simply stated. You don't let me, you know, give you the other side of it. [cite: 3679]

Nellie Akalp: How did we know that it was the right move for us is, we met each other in college, you know, in a class that we had together. [cite: 3680]

Nellie Akalp: It was consumer behavior because we were both, uh, getting our bachelor's degree with an emphasis in marketing. [cite: 368

Nellie Akalp: So, we were taking a consumer behavior class, and we decided to be teamed up together, a study partner. [cite: 368

Nellie Akalp: So really, the foundation started as us being study partners, and that evolved into us becoming intimate and becoming lovers and eventually becoming married. [cite: 3683]

Nellie Akalp: So that foundation was always there. [cite: 3684]