His Former Boss Later Became His Employee

Ephraim Ebstein: Sometimes you just gotta pay to be in the right places.

Ephraim Ebstein: Never burning bridges, because a business world, just the world in general is so small.

Sean Weisbrot: Don't buy a house in a country you don't live in. Nobody should ever put themselves in a situation where they're gonna lose everything all at once.

Ephraim Ebstein: One thing that I learned that I got stuck in my business when we

Sean Weisbrot: networking, do you love it or do you hate it? And why?

Ephraim Ebstein: I love it. I feel, you know, when I think about the times I've been networking, sometimes it does take a lot of energy.

Ephraim Ebstein: You gotta get outta my, I've had to get outta my comfort zone.

Ephraim Ebstein: Like I fly to Miami, I'm flying to Texas, I fly, I'm flying to different events where I know that, you know, some powerful people might be in the room or a prospect or someone I can learn from.

Ephraim Ebstein: Sometimes it's not as hard, but sometimes it's after hours.

Ephraim Ebstein: I just, it's, it's always an effort I feel like, but at the end it is a really worth, worthwhile effort because you know, without the network you really can't build a business.

Ephraim Ebstein: That's what I found.

Sean Weisbrot: Is there one specific person or two people that you've networked with that have really made your business possible?

Ephraim Ebstein: Oh man.

Ephraim Ebstein: Well, if I go back to when I started, um, I got like, I, I, I can think of a lot of little, little examples.

Ephraim Ebstein: You know, I, I, there's not one person, but like the first job I got in an MSP. A guy that I used to go spearfishing with knew one of the top engineers there, and he knew they were hiring, so he threw my name in the hat.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, because I knew this guy that knew this guy, I kind of had, you know, a little bit of preferential, I don't wanna say preferential treatment necessarily, but more trust.

Ephraim Ebstein: When they hired me, that job taught me this business.

Ephraim Ebstein: Right?

Ephraim Ebstein: So that little, that little piece of networking.

Ephraim Ebstein: Taught me that business.

Ephraim Ebstein: And then when I went to go start the business, a lot of the relationships that I had made in the business were people that I then later got to work with as clients and bring in as clients.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, once again, that, that was another, if I, if I had started the business and I didn't know anybody that could work with me, um, that would've been way more difficult.

Ephraim Ebstein: So that, that helped me as well.

Ephraim Ebstein: And then.

Ephraim Ebstein: Moving on up the ladder.

Ephraim Ebstein: As we, as we started going, I've learned a lot of the fundamental things in my business that kind of helped me break through to the next level.

Ephraim Ebstein: Instead of just getting stuck like, you know, I might have or other business owners have.

Ephraim Ebstein: I was able to kind of break through that and that wouldn't have happened unless I knew people that were.

Ephraim Ebstein: Able to kind of teach me those things, right?

Ephraim Ebstein: So in every step of the way, it, it, it, it's been a huge influence and, you know, everyone has heard the old adage, it's kind of.

Ephraim Ebstein: You know, um, who, you know and so on. And so that, that's been a huge, that's been a huge influence for me, for sure.

Sean Weisbrot: Quick break.

Sean Weisbrot: I put together a free guide called Network Before You Need it. It's six lessons I learned that helped me create over a hundred million dollars in value for my network, generate over $15 million in revenue for my businesses, and fundraise over $8 million for my businesses and my clients.

Sean Weisbrot: If you want to build relationships that work for you before you need them.

Sean Weisbrot: Go get this guide right now.

Sean Weisbrot: The link is in the show notes.

Sean Weisbrot: Okay.

Sean Weisbrot: Let's get back.

Sean Weisbrot: What's something that one of these people taught you that helped you to take your business to the next level?

Ephraim Ebstein: One thing that I learned that I got stuck in my business when we were around, um, it was somewhere between seven and 9 million.

Ephraim Ebstein: I remember the year was. 2017. And one of the things that I got stuck on was I just didn't have financial literacy and I started reaching out.

Ephraim Ebstein: Uh, there was this group, um, they were like retired CEOs, mostly retired.

Ephraim Ebstein: Some were still CEOs. They had big exits and so on, and they would do this mentorship program.

Ephraim Ebstein: With other CEOs. And so I got these two guys and they would come in and they were like, okay, we wanna see.

Ephraim Ebstein: I would start telling 'em about the business and all the things we did.

Ephraim Ebstein: They're like, I don't wanna hear anything about that.

Ephraim Ebstein: I was like, they like would constantly shut me up when I tried to like talk about it.

Ephraim Ebstein: And I was like, how are these guys gonna help me? And they would constantly say, I want to see your financials, your profit and loss statement.

Ephraim Ebstein: I wanna see the financials against the budget.

Ephraim Ebstein: So the financials, we had 'em, but I didn't have a good grasp.

Ephraim Ebstein: They would ask questions when they looked at the financials, why is this?

Ephraim Ebstein: Why is that?

Ephraim Ebstein: I don't know.

Ephraim Ebstein: I have to go ask.

Ephraim Ebstein: Or they would, you know?

Ephraim Ebstein: And they were like, okay, well what is the budget?

Ephraim Ebstein: What, what, what?

Ephraim Ebstein: How did you perform?

Ephraim Ebstein: What does this even mean?

Ephraim Ebstein: There's no budget here.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so they would just hammer, these guys would treat me like.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, not mean, but kind of like sharks on the shark tank.

Ephraim Ebstein: Mm-hmm.

Ephraim Ebstein: I kind of joke that they were the sharks because they would just, dude, they would just roast me on the financials and I started to like, I, it didn't click the first time or the second time, but I started to really understand like.

Ephraim Ebstein: That how these guys make decisions through the financials.

Ephraim Ebstein: And it forced me to get, you know, literate with the financials and start to really understand them.

Ephraim Ebstein: And that was a big, that was one component of a few components that kind of helped me break past the $10 million mark.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, um, being able to read those, understand them, and make decisions based on them.

Sean Weisbrot: Where is this group?

Sean Weisbrot: Is it something that anyone can join?

Sean Weisbrot: Is it something that you have to have a certain revenue to get access to?

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah, they're, man, it'll come to me. Sorry, I don't know it off the top of my head.

Ephraim Ebstein: It's okay because it was 2017, so ovo died years ago, but I will, man, I can't. What were they called?

Ephraim Ebstein: Um,

Sean Weisbrot: are you still in contact with these guys now?

Ephraim Ebstein: Not anymore.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um. I'm so sorry, man.

Ephraim Ebstein: I can't remember their names, but I, it'll come to me.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I can find 'em. I can find 'em and I'll, I will, I'll make sure to, to drop you the link.

Ephraim Ebstein: But they were just like a, I don't know if they were a local San Diego group or not, but I had to go through an interview process too.

Ephraim Ebstein: They didn't, they didn't just like helping anyone.

Ephraim Ebstein: And in fact, they kicked me out, um, not because I did anything wrong, but after meeting with me for about four or five times, they're like, well.

Ephraim Ebstein: Come back to us later.

Ephraim Ebstein: You know, we're gonna cut off at this point.

Ephraim Ebstein: This is gonna be the last meeting.

Ephraim Ebstein: And the reason for that was I was just trying to scale.

Ephraim Ebstein: That's not the kind of stuff they were trying to help owners with.

Ephraim Ebstein: They were trying to help them with exits.

Ephraim Ebstein: So they were, they were trying to help them.

Ephraim Ebstein: Or like an acquisition or like some fundamental business pivot that is not to do with product or anything like that really had to do with like an acquisition or a sale or something of that nature.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and I wasn't doing either of those things.

Ephraim Ebstein: I was just trying to, you know, go from 10 million to 20 million in and on up, right?

Ephraim Ebstein: And they're like, well, you know, we, we've helped you enough.

Ephraim Ebstein: For that, what we're really focused on is this.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so they kind of parted ways with me, but, um, but it was, it was an education for me.

Sean Weisbrot: Well, it's great that you got that opportunity and it's great that they knew what they wanted.

Sean Weisbrot: I'm guessing that they run like an m and a firm and so they like an m and a advisor or something.

Sean Weisbrot: So they, they were giving free advice to people to

Ephraim Ebstein: get their ready.

Ephraim Ebstein: What, what was a, like an XCEO of SeaWorld.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, the other one, I forgot what business he was, the ex CEO of. They were like CEOs of, of, of you know, that either had been, you know, they were kind of guys that were usually not in the CEO position anymore because they had exited and they were just kind of like given back in some way.

Sean Weisbrot: Okay.

Sean Weisbrot: Well that's great.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah,

Sean Weisbrot: I don't really hear about too many people like that, so it's amazing.

Sean Weisbrot: If they're still helping people, that would be great.

Sean Weisbrot: That'd be a great resource.

Ephraim Ebstein: I'll find it. I will dig it up and I will.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, drop it in. So if someone's in that position, that's, you know, they're not there just giving free education.

Ephraim Ebstein: They, they were really, um, trying to help with like something like that.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, you know.

Ephraim Ebstein: I always kind of thought, hey, if I get to that point, if there's those, I mean those two individuals might not be around, but I went through like an interview process on that and they had to interview me and um, see if that was someone that they felt they wanted to give their time and energy towards.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, because, you know, obviously they're getting hit up by a lot of CEOs like, come help me, you know, if I could have a CEO of a big multi-billion firm dollar firm come to me to help me. You know, that's a great, that's a great value.

Ephraim Ebstein: And I didn't pay for it either.

Ephraim Ebstein: So that was, that was pretty interesting.

Ephraim Ebstein: But a lot of other mentorship I, I have had to pay for, or networking events, and I used to go regularly to the, um, 10 X Growth Con, which was Grant Cardone event.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, you know, the first time I went I, I paid just like the regular seat tickets.

Ephraim Ebstein: And then as I started going, you know, annually.

Ephraim Ebstein: I started paying more and more than I was like just paying for diamond tickets.

Ephraim Ebstein: Diamond tickets were like $10,000. And it's not like you really get, the only thing, the $10,000, in my opinion, is getting you, is getting you next to other people that paid $10,000. So that was, that was the, the value of the ticket in my opinion.

Ephraim Ebstein: So I think that's a lesson I learned.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um. Sometimes you just gotta pay to be in the right places to put yourself in the proximity of the right people that you wanna meet.

Sean Weisbrot: And did you meet people from those events that went on to be something more than just a person you sat next to or,

Ephraim Ebstein: yes, I did.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I have a couple of them are clients.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um. I, so some turned into clients, others turned into friends, others turned, uh, I've invested with a couple of them.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, some of even turned into mentors for me.

Ephraim Ebstein: So I have like, uh, two guys that I reach out to for advice that I've met at those events.

Ephraim Ebstein: And that advice has been well worth the, the price spent.

Ephraim Ebstein: So. Um, and I've also, uh, yeah, I've invested with one, two, with at least three of 'em. And so that's where I've put invested in like real estate deals, things of that nature.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um. I also, you know, I, I've met people at other events where I haven't spent as much, but sometimes when you go to the event where people are spending money to be there, uh, they're, you know, they're serious people and they have the resources to spend that in a lot of cases.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so you might have a better shot at meeting the person you, you want, but I would always go with the mindset.

Ephraim Ebstein: Like if I was going to one of those events, I was like, I am here.

Ephraim Ebstein: The takeaway minimum of two pieces of information that I can apply into my business, and two relationships that will impact me positively.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so I'm not going like with, you know, expecting to meet a hundred people, um, but that allows me to focus and not feel overwhelmed, um, and, and put my energy into the right place because I'm, I'm intentional about.

Ephraim Ebstein: Who I'm trying to meet and why I'm trying to meet, you know, why I'm trying to meet them.

Ephraim Ebstein: Sometimes I'm like, oh, I'll give you an example.

Ephraim Ebstein: I'm doing a real estate deal in Texas.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and at the last event was a real estate summit.

Ephraim Ebstein: I was like, I wanna meet someone that can help me underwrite deals that have underwritten deals before.

Ephraim Ebstein: And I was very intentional about that.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so, uh, I met that guy and, um. You know, I, you know, I was in the right place with the right intention, and I believe luck is when opportunity meets preparation.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, I, I like that you said the word intentional because it's one of the things that I talk about, which is that when people are networking and they're not really informed about what their own goals are, which a lot of people are not, they go and they don't have a goal, so they get nothing done and they feel it was a wasted evening and.

Sean Weisbrot: Then they don't wanna do it again.

Sean Weisbrot: But if they go through the hard work of understanding themselves, so then they know after that what their goals are, then they can go to a networking event and be intentional about who I, who they wanna meet.

Sean Weisbrot: Obviously there's more things involved in that, like actually wanting to understand people and be curious about them and ask questions and be interesting and so that these people want to know you back and, and want to help you.

Sean Weisbrot: But, uh, yeah, I, I think if you didn't have those goals, if you didn't have those intentions, you probably wouldn't even be where you are in business to, in general.

Sean Weisbrot: So I'm sure you're a pretty curious person.

Ephraim Ebstein: You, you have to be a, a person that, that is interesting yourself.

Ephraim Ebstein: You have to be able, you know, willing to show value and, and, um.

Ephraim Ebstein: To others.

Ephraim Ebstein: So when people ask me for advice or they come to me, I'm very ready and willing to help.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, because I want people to do the same for me when I, when I meet the person that's more successful than me in a certain area.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, so, you know, I, I'm going there as well and I treat everybody that I meet.

Ephraim Ebstein: As somebody important, and sometimes it's just them learning from me, but I still treat them that respect and that importance.

Ephraim Ebstein: And you never know when that might turn, you know, come back around and, you know, and, and benefit you in some way.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I see the world is really small, so it's another thing.

Ephraim Ebstein: I mean, it's not directly tired to networking, but, you know, never burning bridges.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um. Because it, the, the business world, just the world in general is so small, and I've seen so many scenarios where someone's burned a bridge and then years later that individuals they burned the bridge with now are in a position of power in some way, and it's, it's gonna hurt them.

Ephraim Ebstein: So the same thing goes in the positive.

Ephraim Ebstein: So when you, when you treat.

Ephraim Ebstein: You help people, you treat 'em well.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and you know, yeah, a lot of people take it for granted or might forget it, but it comes back eventually.

Sean Weisbrot: I try really hard not to burn bridges.

Sean Weisbrot: I've definitely done it in the past.

Sean Weisbrot: I try to be a very, even like, smooth kind of emotion, uh, how do I say this?

Sean Weisbrot: I, I try really hard to. Not let my emotions control my decisions, and I try to be like a very, uh, consistent person.

Sean Weisbrot: But recently, yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: I don't know about you.

Sean Weisbrot: I get so many people contacting me that with AI generated pitches, whether it's to be a podcast guest or they want to provide a service to me or whatever, or they're just writing something on LinkedIn, like, I got a LinkedIn DM earlier today.

Sean Weisbrot: Someone was saying, I wanna help you with your fundraise.

Sean Weisbrot: I think your business is cool.

Sean Weisbrot: And I'm like, did you not even check my profile?

Sean Weisbrot: What makes you think I'm doing a fundraise?

Sean Weisbrot: I have, there's nothing in my profile that talks about me doing a fundraise.

Sean Weisbrot: Where did you get this idea?

Sean Weisbrot: Like I wanted to just scream at the guy.

Sean Weisbrot: You're an idiot, right?

Sean Weisbrot: It's so easy to just be like, what the hell is wrong with you?

Sean Weisbrot: Do your research before you contact people.

Sean Weisbrot: You know?

Sean Weisbrot: I struggle with that sometimes.

Sean Weisbrot: Just people being stupid.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah, I mean, and sadly I feel like there's more and more stupidity happening.

Ephraim Ebstein: People just are so, um, you know, IM impulsive.

Ephraim Ebstein: We have a lot of employees and it's kind of interesting, like when people exit, uh, 'cause every company, people come and go, right?

Ephraim Ebstein: It's kind of like a train going towards the destination and people get on sometimes from one stop, sometimes.

Ephraim Ebstein: You know, a few rare individuals will go take the train to the end of the line, but usually they're coming on, on and off different stops.

Ephraim Ebstein: And it's interesting when, when people exit, how they exit.

Ephraim Ebstein: And you'll have people that will.

Ephraim Ebstein: When they exit, it's like, time to unload.

Ephraim Ebstein: Right?

Ephraim Ebstein: And everything they didn't like about your company or the people or individuals they worked with, blah, blah, blah.

Ephraim Ebstein: They, they unload it. And others choose the high road.

Ephraim Ebstein: And even if they might've been gripes, you know what, what does it matter?

Ephraim Ebstein: They're, they're moving on. They're gonna talk about, you know, thank, thank you.

Ephraim Ebstein: Thank you.

Ephraim Ebstein: Know, grateful.

Ephraim Ebstein: Say the good, ignore the bad.

Ephraim Ebstein: And that's really the way to do it because, um, I've seen scenarios where people that have unloaded then later are in a position where.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, the person they unloaded on now is, is suddenly their boss or an influencer at a company that they've, you know, either applied for a job on, on, or maybe an acquisition happened and that person is now there.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, I have reversed roles.

Ephraim Ebstein: One, I had two, two bosses.

Ephraim Ebstein: One of 'em actually became my employee.

Ephraim Ebstein: Now, he would've never became my employee if he wasn't a good boss to me.

Ephraim Ebstein: Things, things changed, um, and we had a great working relationship both in, in, in both scenarios.

Ephraim Ebstein: So it, it shows like when you treat people right, um, you know, a lot of great things can happen in, in working relationships.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, uh, that's, that's, that's the way to do it, right?

Ephraim Ebstein: So if I had unloaded on that guy, everything that I thought was wrong when I left.

Ephraim Ebstein: He would've never sought me out and wouldn't have got some of the clients we got together and all, all those kind of things.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, so it is just interesting.

Ephraim Ebstein: I've also seen where people have left the company.

Ephraim Ebstein: Then there's been an acquisition and maybe someone that they were the manager of is now the like manager of the acquiring company and they're kind of in the.

Ephraim Ebstein: In, in this position, you know, their job depends on this person, and it's just like all kinds of, it, it is just interesting how life rolls out.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and, and, and those same principles can be applied in, in networking as well and, and who you're meeting, how you're treating them.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, you never know where a referral might come from or a relationship.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, so it's, it's a great, it's a great, uh. A great endeavor.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, and, and a lot of, you know what's interesting too?

Ephraim Ebstein: A lot of billionaires, millionaires that have lost it all, they rebuild it really fast.

Ephraim Ebstein: And you're like, man, how did they do that?

Ephraim Ebstein: Well, obviously there's knowledge, but I think even bigger than the knowledge is the relationships.

Ephraim Ebstein: So they have a network, they have relationships, they can re-leverage those and, um, and, and grow really fast.

Ephraim Ebstein: So that, that's, that's, um. Something I always keep in mind because I'm like, if I had to start all over, who would my first call be? Who would I call?

Ephraim Ebstein: Who would I have conversations with?

Ephraim Ebstein: And I think that's an important thing to reflect on.

Sean Weisbrot: Hopefully you never have to be there because hopefully you're, you're doing.

Sean Weisbrot: What you need to do to protect the assets that you have been building and and investing in. So I was having this conversation with a friend recently.

Sean Weisbrot: He's got a business that's doing nearly 10 million a RR doesn't have any investors.

Sean Weisbrot: They've been doing it for like 14 years and

Ephraim Ebstein: nice

Sean Weisbrot: for the last few years.

Sean Weisbrot: He's been taking money that he like pays himself his salary and he'll go and buy a multi-unit.

Sean Weisbrot: You know, uh, property and he'll rent it out.

Sean Weisbrot: And then he like bought a hardware store and, uh, then he, he bought an a lumberyard and so he's like buying up space and, you know, land and assets and, and businesses in this small town in Alaska that he lives in.

Sean Weisbrot: And

Ephraim Ebstein: that's really cool.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: So he's, monopolizing is probably not the right word.

Sean Weisbrot: Um, he's trying to add value to the community that he calls home.

Sean Weisbrot: That he's raising his family in. And he had said to me like, you know, what should I be doing right now?

Sean Weisbrot: You know, the markets are weird.

Sean Weisbrot: Like, what do you think I should be doing?

Sean Weisbrot: I'm like, look, I'm not a financial advisor.

Sean Weisbrot: I don't have a license for that.

Sean Weisbrot: If I took one more test, I would be actually, but I decided not to do it. Um, I did two of the three tests.

Ephraim Ebstein: Nice.

Sean Weisbrot: I learned a ton about the different products that exist in the market as a result of it. So it's fascinating education, you know, just didn't want to be a licensed advisor anyways, so I was like, look like you have a bunch of assets that generated income.

Sean Weisbrot: If something terribly bad happens in the world, it's unlikely that every income generating asset you have, like five or six income generating assets.

Sean Weisbrot: It's unlikely that these are all gonna go to shit all at the same time.

Sean Weisbrot: You go, but you probably don't have any cash because you keep buying stuff.

Sean Weisbrot: So you might want to build up a bunch of cash just to be safe, build up a year's worth of cash.

Sean Weisbrot: You know, like his wife has a job as well.

Sean Weisbrot: So build up a year of cash and then, uh. Like that's just for emergencies and then build up, you know, cash that you can then start to look for opportunities.

Sean Weisbrot: And he was like, yeah, I guess I've been like quite aggressive in my risk.

Sean Weisbrot: And I'm like, the, the focus for me personally is getting into income dividend because I tried angel investing and a lot of them failed.

Sean Weisbrot: I've tried investing in my own startup.

Sean Weisbrot: I shut, shut that company down so. The thing that most people need to feel safe is income.

Sean Weisbrot: So if you know what your income is, kinda like you were talking about with this guy saying, Hey, understand your numbers.

Sean Weisbrot: I tell people if you know how much your, your expenses are, your, your wants and your needs, right?

Sean Weisbrot: 'cause your needs are gonna be far less than your wants.

Sean Weisbrot: If you know what your need based budget is on a monthly basis for your personal income, then you know how much money you have to invest into dividend producing, you know, income ETFs so that you can then.

Sean Weisbrot: Be able to replace your cost, your, your income.

Sean Weisbrot: So your goal is to not ever need that money.

Sean Weisbrot: But if you have to, you can start to take that money and the faster you get into it, the faster you're able to quote retire.

Sean Weisbrot: And that's kind of like the fire movement.

Sean Weisbrot: I dunno if you've heard of that, that a lot of those people are looking to have like, no, I haven't heard of that.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, it's like, uh, basically retire really early, be, become financially inten, uh, become financially independent and retire early.

Sean Weisbrot: So like a lot of people, they wanna do this in like their late twenties or early thirties.

Sean Weisbrot: They maybe had a job with like Google or somebody they've made, you know, a million, 2 million.

Sean Weisbrot: They've put it all into ETFs and they're just, you know, making a hundred, 200 KA year passive income, enjoying their life.

Sean Weisbrot: You know, not everybody wants that.

Sean Weisbrot: But I'm of the mindset of like, yeah, sure, keep growing.

Sean Weisbrot: Do everything you can, but also be safe and invest, because I, as you said, if people lose everything, it's like, but nobody should ever put themselves in a situation where they're gonna lose everything all at once.

Sean Weisbrot: That's just dumb.

Sean Weisbrot: Like, you know it, like, I

Ephraim Ebstein: totally agree with that.

Sean Weisbrot: Like, if you have a billion dollar company and you're paying yourself a million dollars a year in salary, like you don't need to spend a million dollars, like at least put a hundred thousand a year away.

Sean Weisbrot: Like do some, like put something away so that you're not.

Sean Weisbrot: Absolutely putting yourself in a shitty situation and, you know, hopefully people learn from that.

Sean Weisbrot: So, rant off.

Sean Weisbrot: Sorry.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah, no, I like it. I, that's, and that's what I've been doing.

Ephraim Ebstein: Uh, similarly what I've done is, um, I've been basically investing in different real estate assets.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, I have kind of a little bit of a mix.

Ephraim Ebstein: I've invested in several syndications in multifamily.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and not with all one syndicator, because I'm like, Hey, what if a syndicator rips me off or goes bad?

Ephraim Ebstein: So I, I spread it out across deals and across syndicators that, you know, from the, that I, that I believe are good and that I trust.

Ephraim Ebstein: But of course, you know, people you trust can fail you to.

Ephraim Ebstein: So that's why I don't even do all in one.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and then I've, uh, invested, um. And a couple long-term rental properties, as well as some short-term rental properties.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, um, I did an investment like in, um, a startup.

Ephraim Ebstein: So there's a little, little ways that I've, I've kind of spread out, uh, to try and, like, like you said, you know, it's, it's likely that something's gonna fail.

Ephraim Ebstein: It's likely that something you invest in is gonna fail.

Ephraim Ebstein: So if you make good strategic RI risks and you kind of spread it out, it's unlikely that they're all gonna fail.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so, um, if one fails, will I be sad?

Ephraim Ebstein: Yes. I'll be sad about it, but I kind of have calculated in that that's a real possibility.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so by, you know, spreading that out, you know, in the financial investments, then I'm, then I'm, you know.

Ephraim Ebstein: Hopefully being wise in, in my investments and putting myself in a position that I can weather a lot of storms.

Sean Weisbrot: It sounds to me though, that you're taking on a lot of risk by being heavily weighted in real estate in general, even if you're with different syndicators or different like styles of investment within real estate.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: It seems like you're very heavy in real estate, which is also not, it's not liquid, right?

Sean Weisbrot: So like.

Sean Weisbrot: If there's a a, a crash in the real estate industry, there's like, it's unlikely to get, you're gonna get your money out, right?

Ephraim Ebstein: That's correct.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: Which, which is, uh, that's, that's the, that's the downside of real estate.

Ephraim Ebstein: But the, you know, part of that, so, so there, you know, I have to remain.

Ephraim Ebstein: Somewhat liquid and I have to have cash flow.

Ephraim Ebstein: But I do like, I like a lot of the benefits of real estate.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, you know, part of the reason is I don't know anyone that really does good in the stock market.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, because I don't know it, I don't trust it.

Ephraim Ebstein: That what, that much, you know, I'm, I'm starting to think more about it, just putting in the s and p 500, letting it sit there for 10. 20 years.

Ephraim Ebstein: But that's

Sean Weisbrot: what most people do and they beat like most people that just buy individual stocks, lose out to people that just have money in the s and p 500 index.

Sean Weisbrot: So for someone that doesn't, that wants to set it and forget it, you just put the money in every month.

Sean Weisbrot: You just put more and more and more, no matter what's going on in the market, you just keep doing that.

Sean Weisbrot: And over, I think it's like, and I know this is a small amount of money, but like if you just put like a hundred thousand.

Sean Weisbrot: Into the market right now and let it sit for 30 years and you don't add any money for ever again.

Sean Weisbrot: Like it should be worth four or $5 million in 30 years.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: That's, that's, that's, that's exactly it.

Ephraim Ebstein: And I, so I, I've started to think about that and putting, putting more, more in there.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, I, you know, I don't want to be necessarily.

Ephraim Ebstein: Doing trades and things like that, I think might maybe just, you know, sometimes they say the best investors are, you know, dead people 'cause they don't trade anymore and it just, their stuff just sits there and compounds.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, that's what I've tried to do.

Ephraim Ebstein: That's great.

Ephraim Ebstein: What are some of the things you like to invest in on, on, in the market

Sean Weisbrot: right now?

Sean Weisbrot: I gotten into, uh, what they call BDCs or private credit.

Sean Weisbrot: And I, I did it like.

Sean Weisbrot: I first got involved with private credit a few months ago before the PRI private credit market started to have a problem.

Sean Weisbrot: But the two companies that I've invested in are showing like lower defaults quarter after quarter, and they're showing more profit quarter after quarter, and their dividends are increasing quarter after quarter.

Sean Weisbrot: So. These two seem like they're the best in the best shape.

Sean Weisbrot: And so the, even though they lost a lot of share price, because the mar, the industry is getting pummeled because of, uh, blue Owl, I think it is.

Sean Weisbrot: Whatever, there's this one company that's just like, didn't know how to perform well, and so they're getting destroyed and they're pulling down the entire industry, but.

Sean Weisbrot: Everybody needs to loan to borrow money to grow their business.

Sean Weisbrot: So like it's something that's gonna continue to exist.

Sean Weisbrot: So I don't see a reason to not be invested in them.

Sean Weisbrot: Uh, so like I'm invested in Hercules and Maine.

Sean Weisbrot: Um, again, I have to say this 'cause I'll get destroyed if I don't. I'm not a financial advisor.

Sean Weisbrot: This is just what I do for myself.

Sean Weisbrot: Um,

Ephraim Ebstein: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sean Weisbrot: I'm also looking into real estate investment trust.

Sean Weisbrot: I haven't done anything with any specifically, but I'm looking at O and Triple N.

Sean Weisbrot: Um, there's another one, OHI I've looked at, but that one I'm not sure. 'cause the yield is quite low.

Sean Weisbrot: That one is for like, uh, senior living facilities.

Sean Weisbrot: I think that one has huge potential for share price growth, but the dividend yield is like 2.5%, so it's very, very low.

Sean Weisbrot: So you need like the share price to go up much higher for it to be worth holding.

Sean Weisbrot: Um, but what I'm really interested more is lower share price growth.

Sean Weisbrot: So sacrificing share price growth for a higher dividend because the dividend is gonna be more, you know, it's consistent.

Sean Weisbrot: Yes. And so I think n and n and o and o are, are capable of that.

Sean Weisbrot: Uh, I'm also invested in a space tech, uh, portfolio 'cause I use eToro and so eToro has this thing called smart portfolios.

Sean Weisbrot: And so I have, I have exposure to different space tech companies through that.

Sean Weisbrot: And, and these are like global portfolios, so it's not just us. Um, and I'm also in a gold, uh, portfolio that has like mining companies and other companies that use gold.

Sean Weisbrot: So it's not just direct exposure to gold itself, it's exposure to the industry around gold.

Sean Weisbrot: Um, and I'm, I'm considering silver, copper and uranium as possible investment soon.

Sean Weisbrot: But, but again, like if I literally just tell the s and p 500, I would probably get, make more money.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah, it makes, makes sense.

Ephraim Ebstein: But once again, it's like you don't wanna put everything in the s and p 500, you know, it's, it's kind of good to spread those investments around.

Sean Weisbrot: Well, in this case, the s and p 500 is a great investment because it tracks the top 500 companies.

Sean Weisbrot: So as companies come into the index and fall out of the index, it's automatically rebalancing itself.

Sean Weisbrot: So it is one of the safest investments that anyone could have.

Sean Weisbrot: Assuming there's no stock market crash, obviously AF during a crash, the price is gonna go down, but during that time, you just keep investing.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: You just keep, keep going.

Sean Weisbrot: Right.

Sean Weisbrot: You just don't pull out what you have.

Sean Weisbrot: You just keep investing more and more and more and more.

Sean Weisbrot: Um, so yeah, that's what I've been thinking about.

Ephraim Ebstein: I like it. Well, I like, I like, even though it's not advice, I like hearing what other people are doing, and then I think about, you know, what I should be doing and, and I can kind of mimic that.

Ephraim Ebstein: And that's kind of how I got into the real estate deal, honestly.

Ephraim Ebstein: Uh, was, uh, one of the things that I liked about real estate.

Ephraim Ebstein: Is with the depreciation, um, you know, taking that against, obviously not just passive income, but because my wife's a real estate professional and with the short-term rentals, I think, uh, you have to fact check me on this.

Ephraim Ebstein: I think you, they only need to do about a hundred hours of labor towards the rental or something like that.

Ephraim Ebstein: A year.

Ephraim Ebstein: Very easy to accomplish.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um. Then, then, and if you have a spouse that's doing that, or one of you are do is doing that, then you can take the depreciation losses from the real estate against your active income when you, when you follow those returns.

Ephraim Ebstein: So that's, that's resulted in. You know, probably millions of dollars of savings for me. So, um, that adds up really fast.

Ephraim Ebstein: There's a huge opportunity and you want to take money and be liquid.

Ephraim Ebstein: It's not, it, it doesn't really afford you that.

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah, exactly.

Sean Weisbrot: That's why I've stayed out of real estate.

Sean Weisbrot: I had one real estate property that I invested in.

Sean Weisbrot: It was a short term on an island in the Caribbean.

Sean Weisbrot: And what they did was you own the unit, you own the land the unit sits on, but they built it, they furnish it, they do the marketing, they do the sales, they get people there.

Ephraim Ebstein: Okay.

Sean Weisbrot: And they take 70% and then there's like 160 units.

Sean Weisbrot: And so they, they can't assume that every unit's gonna have the same amount of revenue.

Sean Weisbrot: So they pull the revenue and then split it equally among all the owners.

Sean Weisbrot: All of the people who own units.

Ephraim Ebstein: Got it.

Sean Weisbrot: When I bought it, I didn't know anything about real estate and I wasn't aware that it was an internal market, so they had no reason to allow the property values to go up or down.

Sean Weisbrot: So when I went to sell it, I sold it for the price.

Sean Weisbrot: I sold it for the price that I bought at minus commissions to people.

Sean Weisbrot: So I actually ended up walking away with 60,000 less than I bought it for. 'cause there's like government fee, there's like government fees, and then there's realtors fees and all, and commission and all this.

Sean Weisbrot: And the only reason I sold it was because when they were talking to me about the ROI, they said that the previous like setup that they did on the island was getting like seven or 8% a year.

Sean Weisbrot: So they said, we, we can assume that this is gonna, you know, do the same for us. But then COVID happened like a year later, and so the business wasn't up and running for like another year and a half.

Sean Weisbrot: So the first two years I got like.

Sean Weisbrot: Half a percent.

Sean Weisbrot: And then like the few years after that, it was like one and a half, 2%.

Sean Weisbrot: And I was like, this is ridiculous.

Sean Weisbrot: I'm just gonna take the cash and put it somewhere else.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah, that's a, I've, I've, I've taken some lumps too.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, what was the biggest lesson you learned from that one?

Sean Weisbrot: Don't buy a house in a country you don't live in.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: I guess knowing the market, right?

Sean Weisbrot: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: What country was that?

Ephraim Ebstein: Or what island was that?

Sean Weisbrot: Dominica.

Ephraim Ebstein: Dominica.

Ephraim Ebstein: Gotcha.

Ephraim Ebstein: Yeah.

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, I, I did, uh, I had a, a, a pretty big loss on a short-term rental that I purchased, uh, in Palm Springs.

Ephraim Ebstein: And the, what was interesting about what happened there was I found this property, I underwrote it, and I was confident that it would, you know.

Ephraim Ebstein: That I would make money on this and I, I purchased it and Palm Springs has short term rental regulations, so you get permits and stuff, which actually is a good thing, not a bad thing, because if you're in a market where there is no regulation.

Ephraim Ebstein: It short term rental regulation is coming.

Ephraim Ebstein: So it's better to go in knowing what it is that there is a system there versus no system.

Ephraim Ebstein: So I thought that was good, but I didn't do enough research because what I didn't realize is some of the rules that they had in place.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, um, one of the rules they had in place is that Airbnb guests in the city of Palm Springs cannot play music.

Ephraim Ebstein: Anytime of day, night, day doesn't matter.

Ephraim Ebstein: If music is, can be heard from outside the property, uh, someone can complain and, um, the tenant gets, gets a fine.

Ephraim Ebstein: So, and if you get th uh, three strikes within a six month period of time, uh, you lose your short-term rental license even though.

Ephraim Ebstein: As the host, you did nothing wrong, really.

Ephraim Ebstein: And sure enough, well, I had a swimming pool.

Ephraim Ebstein: And what do people do during the day?

Ephraim Ebstein: Doesn't matter how many times I tell 'em they can't play music, they're like, ah, it ain't gonna hurt nobody.

Ephraim Ebstein: We'll play the music quietly.

Ephraim Ebstein: I had a neighbor that obviously didn't like the fact that I was, had short term rental guests playing music.

Ephraim Ebstein: So they would call the enforcement enforcement.

Ephraim Ebstein: They came quick.

Ephraim Ebstein: They'd always be there within like 10, 15 minutes.

Ephraim Ebstein: And if they came to the front door and they could hear that any music being played, uh, that resulted in a strike.

Ephraim Ebstein: So within six months, I got three strikes.

Ephraim Ebstein: And I lost my short-term rental permit for two years, which is like a death sentence.

Ephraim Ebstein: Right?

Ephraim Ebstein: Um, and so I had to pivot.

Ephraim Ebstein: It was kind of the high season, so I just pivoted into like midterm rental where you basically have someone there for a month 'cause that falls outside the regulation.

Ephraim Ebstein: But at the end of it I was like, man, this is, this just.

Ephraim Ebstein: Sucks.

Ephraim Ebstein: It's too much hassle.

Ephraim Ebstein: I could take the money, invest it in something else and have a better return.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so I did that.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I probably lost like a hundred K because not enough time had gone for the, the property to appreciate.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, and then the market was softening too.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, and then, you know, after you pay, you know, real estate, you know, agent commission fees.

Ephraim Ebstein: It's basically, you know, there goes your a hundred K. So that was a, that was a lesson for me as well.

Sean Weisbrot: What do you think is the most important thing you've learned in your life so far?

Ephraim Ebstein: So, I have a deep relationship.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I, I believe, um, I believe in God and I know a lot of people don't, but.

Ephraim Ebstein: I certainly believe in him.

Ephraim Ebstein: And, um, and, you know, complying my life around a higher purpose and higher principles has allowed me to be successful.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I, I think when you have a society, uh, that doesn't believe in God. Then who is the one to, to set, you know, moral boundaries and principles and it just goes off of what people feel and people have a, a wide variety of feelings towards what they feel.

Ephraim Ebstein: And so it's kind of a, a slippery slope.

Ephraim Ebstein: I, I see that societies have a whole, um, usually will, you know, kind of end in their destruction when they, you know.

Ephraim Ebstein: No longer believe in God. So that's, that's just, you know, I, I don't want to get religious, but I definitely think that's a been, you know, those principles have served me well, both in my personal life and my business life, and they're basic principles.

Ephraim Ebstein: But that's, that's kind of, I, I would say, of everything, that's the number one.

Sean Weisbrot: Thanks for watching.

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